From: PeteSeeger.net
House Un-American Activities Committee
August 18, 1955
Pete Seeger
A Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met at 10 a.m.,
in room 1703 of the Federal Building, Foley Square, New York, New York, the
Honorable Francis E. Walter (Chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Walter, Edwin E. Willis, and
Gordon H. Scherer.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel; Donald T. Appell
and Frank Bonora, Investigators; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk.
MR. TAVENNER: When and where were you born, Mr. Seeger?
MR. SEEGER: I was born in New York in 1919.
MR. TAVENNER: What is your profession or occupation?
MR. SEEGER: Well, I have worked at many things, and my main profession is a
student of American folklore, and I make my living as a banjo picker-sort
of damning, in some people's opinion.
MR. TAVENNER Has New York been your headquarters for a considerable period
of time?
MR. SEEGER: No, I lived here only rarely until I left school, and after a
year or two or a few years living here after World War II I got back to the
country, where I always felt more at home.
MR. TAVENNER: You say that you were in the Armed Forces of the United
States?
MR. SEEGER: About three and a half years.
MR. TAVENNER: Will you tell us please the period of your service?
MR. SEEGER: I went in in July 1942 and I was mustered out in December 1945.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you attain the rank of an officer?
MR. SEEGER: No. After about a year I made Pfc, and just before I got out I
got to be T-5, which is in the equivilant of a corporal's rating, a long
hard pull.
MR. TAVENNER: Mr. Seeger, prior to your entry in the service in 1942, were
you engaged in the practice of your profession in the area of New York?
MR. SEEGER: It is hard to call it a profession. I kind of drifted into it
and I never intended to be a musician, and I am glad I am one now, and it
is a very honorable profession, but when I started out actually I wanted to
be a newspaperman, and when I left school --
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Will you answer the question, please?
MR. SEEGER: I have to explain that it really wasn't my profession, I picked
up a little change in it.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you practice your profession?
MR. SEEGER: I sang for people, yes, before World War II, and I also did as
early as 1925.
MR. TAVENNER: And upon your return from the service in December of 1945,
you continued in your profession?
MR. SEEGER: I continued singing, and I expect I always will.
MR. TAVENNER: The Committee has information obtained in part from the Daily
Worker indicating that, over a period of time, especially since December of
1945, you took part in numerous entertainment features. I have before me a
photostatic copy of the June 20, 1947, issue of the Daily Worker. In a
column entitled "What's On" appears this advertisement: "Tonight-Bronx,
hear Peter Seeger and his guitar, at Allerton Section housewarming." May I
ask you whether or not the Allerton Section was a section of the Communist
Party?
MR. SEEGER: Sir, I refuse to answer that question whether it was a quote
from the New York Times or the Vegetarian Journal.
MR. TAVENNER: I don't believe there is any more authoritative document in
regard to the Communist Party than its official organ, the Daily Worker.
MR. SCHERER: He hasn't answered the question, and he merely said he
wouldn't answer whether the article appeared in the New York Times or some
other magazine. I ask you to direct the witness to answer the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer.
MR. SEEGER: Sir, the whole line of questioning-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You have only been asked one question, so far.
MR. SEEGER: I am not going to answer any questions as to my association, my
philosophical or religious beliefs or my political beliefs, or how I voted
in any election, or any of these private affairs. I think these are very
improper questions for any American to be asked, especially under such
compulsion as this. I would be very glad to tell you my life if you want to
hear of it.
MR. TAVENNER: Has the witness declined to answer this specific question?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: He said that he is not going to answer any questions, any
names or things.
MR. SCHERER: He was directed to answer the question.
MR. TAVENNER: I have before me a photostatic copy of the April 30, 1948,
issue of the Daily Worker which carries under the same title of "What's
On," an advertisement of a "May Day Rally: For Peace, Security and
Democracy." The advertisement states: "Are you in a fighting mood? Then
attend the May Day rally." Expert speakers are stated to be slated for the
program, and then follows a statement, "Entertainment by Pete Seeger." At
the bottom appears this: "Auspices Essex County Communist Party," and at
the top, "Tonight, Newark, N.J." Did you lend your talent to the Essex
County Communist Party on the occasion indicated by this article from the
Daily Worker?
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Walter, I believe I have already answered this question,
and the same answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: The same answer. In other words, you mean that you decline
to answer because of the reasons stated before?
MR. SEEGER: I gave my answer, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: You see, sir, I feel-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you what my answer is.
(Witness consulted with counsel [Paul L. Ross].)
I feel that in my whole life I have never done anything of any
conspiratorial nature and I resent very much and very deeply the
implication of being called before this Committee that in some way because
my opinions may be different from yours, or yours, Mr. Willis, or yours,
Mr. Scherer, that I am any less of an American than anybody else. I love my
country very deeply, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Why don't you make a little contribution toward preserving
its institutions?
MR. SEEGER: I feel that my whole life is a contribution. That is why I
would like to tell you about it.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I don't want to hear about it.
MR. SCHERER: I think that there must be a direction to answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer, sir.
MR. SCHERER: Let me understand. You are not relying on the Fifth Amendment,
are you?
MR. SEEGER: No, sir, although I do not want to in any way discredit or
depreciate or depredate the witnesses that have used the Fifth Amendment,
and I simply feel it is improper for this committee to ask such questions.
MR. SCHERER: And then in answering the rest of the questions, or in
refusing to answer the rest of the questions, I understand that you are not
relying on the Fifth Amendment as a basis for your refusal to answer?
MR. SEEGER: No, I am not, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I have before me a photostatic copy of May 4,1949, issue of
the Daily Worker, which has an article entitled, "May Day Smash Review Put
on by Communist Cultural Division, On Stage," and the article was written
by Bob Reed. This article emphasizes a production called Now Is the Time,
and it says this: Now Is the Time was a hard-hitting May Day show of songs
and knife-edged satire. New songs and film strips walloped the enemies of
the people in what the singers called "Aesopian language." And other
persons [participated], including Pete Seeger. Lee Hays is recited to be
the MC, or master of ceremonies. Did you take part in this May Day program
under the auspices of the Music Section of the Cultural Division of the
Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Chairman, the answer is the same as before.
MR. SCHERER: I think we have to have a direction.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question.
MR. SEEGER: I have given you my answer, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: The article contains another paragraph, as follows: This
performance of Now Is the Time was given in honor of the twelve indicted
Communist Party leaders. And then it continues with Bob Reed's account of
the show: This reviewer has never seen a show which stirred its audience
more. Add up new material, fine personal and group performances,
overwhelming audience response-the result was a significant advance in the
people's cultural movement. Now Is the Time is that rare phenomenon, a
political show in which performers and audience had a lot of fun. It should
be repeated for large audiences. Mr. Lee Hays was asked, while he was on
the witness stand, whether or not he wrote that play, and he refused to
answer. Do you know whether he was the originator of the script?
MR. SEEGER: Do I know whether he was the originator of the script? Again my
answer is the same. However, if you want to question me about any songs, I
would be glad to tell you, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: That is what you are being asked about now.
MR. TAVENNER: You said that you would tell us about the songs. Did you
participate in a program at Wingdale Lodge in the State of New York, which
is a summer camp for adults and children, on the weekend of July Fourth of
this year?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: Again, I say I will be glad to tell what songs I have ever
sung, because singing is my business.
MR. TAVENNER: I am going to ask you.
MR. SEEGER: But I decline to say who has ever listened to them, who has
written them, or other people who have sung them.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you sing this song, to which we have referred, "Now Is
the Time," at Wingdale Lodge on the weekend of July Fourth?
MR. SEEGER: I don't know any song by that name, and I know a song with a
similar name. It is called "Wasn't That a Time." Is that the song?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you sing that song?
MR. SEEGER: I can sing it. I don't know how well I can do it without my
banjo.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I said, Did you sing it on that occasion?
MR. SEEGER: I have sung that song. I am not going to go into where I have
sung it. I have sung it many places.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you sing it on this particular occasion? That is what
you are being asked.
MR. SEEGER: Again my answer is the same.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You said that you would tell us about it.
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you about the songs, but I am not going to tell you
or try to explain-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question. Did you sing this
particular song on the Fourth of July at Wingdale Lodge in New York?
MR. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer to that question, and all
questions such as that. I feel that is improper: to ask about my
associations and opinions. I have said that I would be voluntarily glad to
tell you any song, or what I have done in my life.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I think it is my duty to inform you that we don't accept
this answer and the others, and I give you an opportunity now to answer
these questions, particularly the last one.
MR. SEEGER: Sir, my answer is always the same.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: All right, go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you chosen by Mr. Elliott Sullivan to take part in the
program on the weekend of July Fourth at Wingdale Lodge?
MR. SEEGER: The answer is the same, sir.
MR. WILLIS: Was that the occasion of the satire on the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights?
MR. TAVENNER: The same occasion, yes, sir. I have before me a photostatic
copy of a page from the June 1, 1949, issue of the Daily Worker, and in a
column entitled "Town Talk" there is found this statement: The first
performance of a new song, "If I Had a Hammer," on the theme of the Foley
Square trial of the Communist leaders, will he given at a testimonial
dinner for the 12 on Friday night at St. Nicholas Arena. . . .Among those
on hand for the singing will be . . . Pete Seeger, and Lee Hays-and others
whose names are mentioned. Did you take part in that performance?
MR. SEEGER: I shall he glad to answer about the song, sir, and I am not
interested in carrying on the line of questioning about where I have sung
any songs.
MR. TAVENNER: I ask a direction.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You may not he interested, but we are, however. I direct
you to answer. You can answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I feel these questions are improper, sir, and I feel they are
immoral to ask any American this kind of question.
MR. TAVENNER: Have you finished your answer?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Seeger exhibit No.4," for identification only, and to be made a
part of the Committee files.
MR. SEEGER: I am sorry you are not interested in the song. It is a good
song.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you present in the hearing room while the former
witnesses testified?
MR. SEEGER: I have been here all morning, yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I assume then that you heard me read the testimony of Mr.
[Elia] Kazan about the purpose of the Communist Party in having its actors
entertain for the henefit of Communist fronts and the Communist Party. Did
you hear that testimony?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, I have heard all of the testimony today.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you hear Mr. George Hall's testimony yesterday in which
he stated that, as an actor, the special contribution that he was expected
to make to the Communist Party was to use his talents by entertaining at
Communist Party functions? Did you hear that testimony?
MR. SEEGER: I didn't hear it, no.
MR. TAVENNER: It is a fact that he so testified. I want to know whether or
not you were engaged in a similar type of service to the Communist Party in
entertaining at these features.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I have sung for Americans of every political persuasion, and I
am proud that I never refuse to sing to an audience, no matter what
religion or color of their skin, or situation in life. I have sung in hobo
jungles, and I have sung for the Rockefellers, and I am proud that I have
never refused to sing for anybody. That is the only answer I can give along
that line.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Mr. Tavenner, are you getting around to that letter? There
was a letter introduced yesterday that I think was of greater importance
than any bit of evidence adduced at these hearings, concerning the attempt
made to influence people in this professional performers' guild and union
to assist a purely Communist cause which had no relation whatsoever to the
arts and the theater. Is that what you are leading up to?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, it is. That was the letter of Peter Lawrence, which I
questioned him about yesterday. That related to the trial of the Smith Act
defendants here at Foley Square. I am trying to inquire now whether this
witness was party to the same type of propaganda effort by the Communist
Party.
MR. SCHERER: There has been no answer to your last question.
MR. TAVENNER: That is right; may I have a direction?
MR. SEEGER: Would you repeat the question? I don't even know what the last
question was, and I thought I have answered all of them up to now.
MR. TAVENNER: What you stated was not in response to the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Proceed with the questioning, Mr. Tavenner.
MR. TAVENNER: I believe, Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I will have
the question read to him. I think it should be put in exactly the same
form.
(Whereupon the reporter read the pending question as above recorded.)
MR. SEEGER: "These features": what do you mean? Except for the answer I
have already given you, I have no answer. The answer I gave you you have,
don't you? That is, that I am proud that I have sung for Americans of every
political persuasion, and I have never refused to sing for anybody because
I disagreed with their political opinion, and I am proud of the fact that
my songs seem to cut across and find perhaps a unifying thing, basic
humanity,and that is why I would love to be able to tell you about these
songs, because I feel that you would agree with me more, sir. I know many
beautiful songs from your home county, Carbon, and Monroe, and I hitchhiked
through there and stayed in the homes of miners.
MR. TAVENNER: My question was whether or not you sang at these functions of
the Communist Party. You have answered it inferentially, and if I
understand your answer, you are saying you did.
MR. SEEGER: Except for that answer, I decline to answer further.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you sing at functions of the Communist Party, at
Communist Party requests?
MR. SEEGER: I believe, sir, that a good twenty minutes ago, I gave my
answer to this whole line of questioning.
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, but you have now beclouded your answer by your
statement, and I want to make certain what you mean. Did you sing at the
Communist Party functions which I have asked you about, as a Communist
Party duty?
MR. SEEGER: I have already indicated that I am not interested, and I feel
it is improper to say who has sung my songs or who I have sung them to,
especially under such compulsion as this.
MR. TAVENNER: Have you been a member of the Communist Party since 1947?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: The same answer, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I must give the same answer as before.
MR. TAVENNER: I have a throwaway sheet entitled "Culture Fights Back,
1953," showing entertainment at the Capitol Hotel, Carnival Room,
Fifty-first Street at Eighth Avenue, in 1953, sponsored by the Committee to
Defend V. J. Jerome. It indicates that Pete Seeger was one of those
furnishing the entertainment. Will you tell the Committee, please, whether
or not you were asked to perform on that occasion, and whether or not you
did, either as a Communist Party directive, or as what you considered to be
a duty to the Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: I believe I have answered this already.
MR. TAVENNER: Are you acquainted with V. J. Jerome?
MR. SEEGER: I have already told you, sir, that I believe my associations,
whatever they are, are my own private affairs.
MR. TAVENNER: You did know, at that time, in 1953, that V. J. Jerome was a
cultural head of the Communist Party and one of the Smith Act defendants in
New York City?
MR. SEEGER: Again the same answer, sir.
MR. SCHERER: You refuse to answer that question?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I hand you a photograph which was taken of the May Day parade
in New York City in 1952, which shows the front rank of a group of
individuals, and one is in a uniform with military cap and insignia, and
carrying a placard entitled CENSORED. Will you examine it please and state
whether or not that is a photograph of you?
(A document was handed to the witness.)
MR. SEEGER: It is like Jesus Christ when asked by Pontius Pilate, "Are you
king of the Jews?"
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Stop that.
MR. SEEGER: Let someone else identify that picture.
MR. SCHERER: I ask that he be directed to answer the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question.
MR. SEEGER: Do I identify this photograph?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Yes.
MR. SEEGER: I say let someone else identify it.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Seeger exhibit No.6."
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Make it a part of the record.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: It is noted that the individual mentioned is wearing a
military uniform. That was in May of 1952, and the statute of limitations
would have run by now as to any offense for the improper wearing of the
uniform, and will you tell the Committee whether or not you took part in
that May Day program wearing a uniform of an American soldier?
MR. SEEGER: The same answer as before, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SCHERER: I think the record should show that the witness remains mute,
following the direction by the Chairman to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: The same answer, sir, as before.
MR. SCHERER: Again, I understand that you are not invoking the Fifth
Amendment?
MR. SEEGER: That is correct.
MR. SCHERER: We are not accepting the answers or the reasons you gave.
MR. SEEGER: That is your prerogative, sir.
MR. SCHERER: Do you understand it is the feeling of the Committee that you
are in contempt as a result of the position you take?
MR. SEEGER: I can't say.
MR. SCHERER: I am telling you that that is the position of the Committee.
MR. TAVENNER: The Daily Worker of April 21, 1948, at page 7, contains a
notice that Pete Seeger was a participant in an affair for Ferdinand Smith.
Will you tell the Committee what the occasion was at which you took part?
MR. SEEGER: I hate to waste the Committee's time, but I think surely you
must realize by now that my answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Do you know whether Ferdinand Smith was under deportation
orders at that time?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I think that he was not under deportation orders until a
little later than that.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is his name?
MR. TAVENNER: Ferdinand Smith, a Communist Party member and former
vice-president of the maritime union. My purpose in asking you these
questions, Mr. Seeger, is to determine whether or not, in accordance with
the plan of the Communist Party as outlined by Mr. Kazan and Mr. George
Hall, you were performing a valuable service to the Communist Party, and if
that was the way they attempted to use you.
MR. SEEGER: Is that a question, sir?
MR. TAVENNER: That is my explanation to you, with the hope that you will
give the Committee some light on that subject.
MR. SEEGER: No, my answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also perform and entertain at various functions held
by front organizations, such as the American Youth for Democracy? I have
here photostatic copies of the Daily Worker indicating such programs were
conducted in Detroit in 1952, at Greenwich Village on May 10, 1947, and
again at another place in March of 1948. Did you entertain at functions
under the auspices of the American Youth for Democracy?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: The answer is the same, and I take it that you are not
interested in all of the different places that I have sung. Why don't you
ask me about the churches and schools and other places?
MR. TAVENNER: That is very laudable, indeed, and I wish only that your
activities had been confined to those areas. If you were acting for the
Communist Party at these functions, we want to know it. We want to
determine just what the Communist Party plan was.
MR. SCHERER: Witness, you have indicated that you are perfectly willing to
tell us about all of these innumerable functions at which you entertained,
but why do you refuse to tell us about the functions that Mr. Tavenner
inquires about?
MR. SEEGER: No, sir, I said that I should be glad to tell you about all of
the songs that I have sung, because I feel that the songs are the clearest
explanation of what I do believe in, as a musician, and as an American.
MR. SCHERER: Didn't you just say that you sang before various religious
groups, school groups?
MR. SEEGER: I have said it and I will say it again, and I have sung for
perhaps-
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SCHERER: You are willing to tell us about those groups?
MR. SEEGER: I am saying voluntarily that I have sung for almost every
religious group in the country, from Jewish and Catholic, and Presbyterian
and Holy Rollers and Revival Churches, and I do this voluntarily. I have
sung for many, many different groups-and it is hard for perhaps one person
to believe, I was looking back over the twenty years or so that I have sung
around these forty-eight states, that I have sung in so many different
places.
MR. SCHERER: Did you sing before the groups that Mr. Tavenner asked you
about?
MR. SEEGER: I am saying that my answer is the same as before. I have told
you that I sang for everybody.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Wait a minute. You sang for everybody. Then are we to
believe, or to take it, that you sang at the places Mr. Tavenner mentioned?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is that?
MR. SEEGER: It seems to me like the third time I have said it, if not the
fourth.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Maybe it is the fifth, but say it again. I want to know
what your answer is.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I decline to discuss, under compulsion, where I have sung, and
who has sung my songs, and who else has sung with me, and the people I have
known. I love my country very dearly, and I greatly resent this implication
that some of the places that I have sung and some of the people that I have
known, and some of my opinions, whether they are religious or
philosophical, or I might be a vegetarian, make me any less of an American.
I will tell you about my songs, but I am not interested in telling you who
wrote them, and I will tell you about my songs, and I am not interested in
who listened to them.
MR. TAVENNER: According to the Daily Worker, there was a conference program
of the Civil Rights Congress on April 2, 1949, at which you were one of the
performers. On August 27, 1949, the People's Artists presented a summer
musicale at Lakeland Acres picnic grounds, Peekskill, New York, for the
benefit of the Harlem chapter of the Civil Rights Congress, at which you
were a participant. At another meeting of the Civil Rights Congress of New
York, around May 11, 1946, you were a participant. Will you tell the
Committee, please, under what circumstances you performed, because you have
said that you sang at all sorts of meetings. Under what circumstances were
your services acquired on those occasions?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir. I can only infer from
your lack of interest in my songs that you are actually scared to know what
these songs are like, because there is nothing wrong with my songs, sir. Do
you know-
MR. SCHERER: You said you want to talk about your songs, and I will give
you an opportunity. Tell us what songs you sang at Communist Party
meetings?
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you about the songs that I have sung any place.
MR. SCHERER: I want to know the ones that you sang at Communist Party
meetings, because those are the songs about which we can inquire. Just tell
us one song that you sang at a Communist Party meeting.
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Scherer, it seems to me that you heard my testimony, and
that is a ridiculous question, because you know what my answer is.
MR. TAVENNER: Mr. George Hall testified that the entertainment that he
engaged in, at the instance of the Communist Party, was not songs of a
political character. He did say, however, that he was expected by the
Communist Party to perform in order to raise money for the Communist Party.
Now, did you, as Mr. Hall did, perform in order to raise money for
Communist Party causes?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I don't care what Mr. Hall says, and my answer is the same as
before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: That you refuse to answer?
MR. SEEGER: I have given my answer.
MR. SCHERER: Was Mr. Hall telling the truth when he told the Committee
about the entertainment he engaged in at the instance of the Communist
Party?
MR. SEEGER: I don't feel like discussing what Mr. Hall said.
MR. TAVENNER: The American Committee for Yugoslav Relief has been
designated as a front organization. According to the October 22, 1947,
issue of the Daily People's World, in California, Pete Seeger headed the
list of entertainers to appear at a picnic given by the Southern California
chapter of that organization. Did you participate in that program?
MR. SEEGER: If you have a hundred more photostats there, it seems silly for
me to give you the same answer a hundred more times.
MR. TAVENNER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: It is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: There are various peace groups in the country which have
utilized your services, are there not?
MR. SEEGER: I have sung for pacifists and I have sung for soldiers.
MR. TAVENNER: According to the Daily Worker of September 6, 1940, you were
scheduled as a singer at a mass meeting of the American Peace Mobilization
at Turner's Arena, in Washington, D.C. What were the circumstances under
which you were requested to take part in that performance?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: You were a member of the American Peace Mobilization, were
you not?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you not a delegate to the Chicago convention of the
American Peace Mobilization on September 5, 1940?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Is that organization subversive?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is the name of it?
MR. TAVENNER: American Peace Mobilization, and it was the beginning of
these peace organizations, back in 1940. Did you take part in the American
Peace Crusade program in Chicago in April of 1954?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before. Of course, I would be curious
to know what you think of a song like this very great Negro spiritual, "I'm
Gonna Lay Down My Sword and Shield, Down by the Riverside."
MR. TAVENNER: That is not at all responsive to my question.
MR. SEEGER: I gave you my answer before I even said that.
MR. TAVENNER: If you refuse to answer, I think that you should not make a
speech.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also perform a service for the California Labor
School in Los Angeles by putting on musical programs there?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you teach in the California Labor School?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. SCHERER: I think for the record you should state whether the California
Labor School has been cited.
MR. TAVENNER: It has.
MR. SCHERER: As subversive and Communist dominated?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, it has been.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also teach at the Jefferson School of Social Science
here in the city of New York?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. SCHERER: I ask that you direct him to answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer. Did you teach at the Jefferson
School here at New York?
MR. SEEGER: I feel very silly having to repeat the same thing over and over
again, but my answer is exactly the same as before, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Has the Jefferson School of Social Science been cited?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, and it has been required to register under the 1950
Internal Security Act.
MR. SCHERER: There are a number of people here who taught at that school,
Mr. Walter.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer in evidence a photostatic copy of an
article from the September 21, 1946, issue of the Daily Worker which refers
to music courses at Jefferson School, and I call attention to the last
sentence in the article wherein Peter Seeger is mentioned as a leader in
one of the courses. * * * According to the March 18, 1948, issue of the
Daily Worker, it is indicated that you would entertain at a musical
presented by the Jefferson Workers' Bookshop. According to the November 25,
1948, issue of the same paper you would perform also under the auspices of
the Jefferson School of Social Science. Also you were a participant in a
program advertised in the Daily Worker of June 1, 1950, put on by the
Jefferson School of Social Science, and according to an issue of February
15, 1954, of the same paper, you were expected to play and lecture on songs
and ballads in the Jefferson School. Will you tell the Committee, please,
what were the circumstances under which you engaged in those programs, if
you did?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also engage in performances for the Labor Youth
League in 1954?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before. Did you think that I sing
propaganda songs or something?
MR. TAVENNER: In 1947, what was your connection with an organization known
as People's Songs?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I take the same answer as before regarding any organization or
any association I have.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What was People's Songs, Mr. Tavenner?
MR. TAVENNER: People's Songs was an organization which, according to its
issue of February and March 1947, was composed of a number of persons on
the board of directors who have been called before this Committee or
identified by this Committee as members of the Communist Party, and the
purpose of which, from information made available to the Committee, was to
extend services to the Communist Party in its entertainment projects. Mr.
Lee Hays was a member of the board of directors, was he not, along with
you, in this organization?
(Witness consulted with counsel)
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you not the editor of People's Songs, and a member of
the board of directors in 1947?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: You were actually the national director of this organization,
were you not?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Was the organization founded by Alan Lomax?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Was the booking agent of People's Songs an organization known
as People's Artists?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Will you tell the Committee, please, whether or not during
the weekend of July 4, 1955, you were a member of the Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during
the various entertainment features in which you were alleged to have
engaged?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. SCHERER: I ask for a direction on that question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer.
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: The witness is excused.
Pete Seeger was sentenced to a year in jail for contempt of Congress but
appealed his case successfully after a fight that lasted until 1962.
House Un-American Activities Committee
August 18, 1955
Pete Seeger
A Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met at 10 a.m.,
in room 1703 of the Federal Building, Foley Square, New York, New York, the
Honorable Francis E. Walter (Chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Walter, Edwin E. Willis, and
Gordon H. Scherer.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel; Donald T. Appell
and Frank Bonora, Investigators; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk.
MR. TAVENNER: When and where were you born, Mr. Seeger?
MR. SEEGER: I was born in New York in 1919.
MR. TAVENNER: What is your profession or occupation?
MR. SEEGER: Well, I have worked at many things, and my main profession is a
student of American folklore, and I make my living as a banjo picker-sort
of damning, in some people's opinion.
MR. TAVENNER Has New York been your headquarters for a considerable period
of time?
MR. SEEGER: No, I lived here only rarely until I left school, and after a
year or two or a few years living here after World War II I got back to the
country, where I always felt more at home.
MR. TAVENNER: You say that you were in the Armed Forces of the United
States?
MR. SEEGER: About three and a half years.
MR. TAVENNER: Will you tell us please the period of your service?
MR. SEEGER: I went in in July 1942 and I was mustered out in December 1945.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you attain the rank of an officer?
MR. SEEGER: No. After about a year I made Pfc, and just before I got out I
got to be T-5, which is in the equivilant of a corporal's rating, a long
hard pull.
MR. TAVENNER: Mr. Seeger, prior to your entry in the service in 1942, were
you engaged in the practice of your profession in the area of New York?
MR. SEEGER: It is hard to call it a profession. I kind of drifted into it
and I never intended to be a musician, and I am glad I am one now, and it
is a very honorable profession, but when I started out actually I wanted to
be a newspaperman, and when I left school --
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Will you answer the question, please?
MR. SEEGER: I have to explain that it really wasn't my profession, I picked
up a little change in it.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you practice your profession?
MR. SEEGER: I sang for people, yes, before World War II, and I also did as
early as 1925.
MR. TAVENNER: And upon your return from the service in December of 1945,
you continued in your profession?
MR. SEEGER: I continued singing, and I expect I always will.
MR. TAVENNER: The Committee has information obtained in part from the Daily
Worker indicating that, over a period of time, especially since December of
1945, you took part in numerous entertainment features. I have before me a
photostatic copy of the June 20, 1947, issue of the Daily Worker. In a
column entitled "What's On" appears this advertisement: "Tonight-Bronx,
hear Peter Seeger and his guitar, at Allerton Section housewarming." May I
ask you whether or not the Allerton Section was a section of the Communist
Party?
MR. SEEGER: Sir, I refuse to answer that question whether it was a quote
from the New York Times or the Vegetarian Journal.
MR. TAVENNER: I don't believe there is any more authoritative document in
regard to the Communist Party than its official organ, the Daily Worker.
MR. SCHERER: He hasn't answered the question, and he merely said he
wouldn't answer whether the article appeared in the New York Times or some
other magazine. I ask you to direct the witness to answer the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer.
MR. SEEGER: Sir, the whole line of questioning-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You have only been asked one question, so far.
MR. SEEGER: I am not going to answer any questions as to my association, my
philosophical or religious beliefs or my political beliefs, or how I voted
in any election, or any of these private affairs. I think these are very
improper questions for any American to be asked, especially under such
compulsion as this. I would be very glad to tell you my life if you want to
hear of it.
MR. TAVENNER: Has the witness declined to answer this specific question?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: He said that he is not going to answer any questions, any
names or things.
MR. SCHERER: He was directed to answer the question.
MR. TAVENNER: I have before me a photostatic copy of the April 30, 1948,
issue of the Daily Worker which carries under the same title of "What's
On," an advertisement of a "May Day Rally: For Peace, Security and
Democracy." The advertisement states: "Are you in a fighting mood? Then
attend the May Day rally." Expert speakers are stated to be slated for the
program, and then follows a statement, "Entertainment by Pete Seeger." At
the bottom appears this: "Auspices Essex County Communist Party," and at
the top, "Tonight, Newark, N.J." Did you lend your talent to the Essex
County Communist Party on the occasion indicated by this article from the
Daily Worker?
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Walter, I believe I have already answered this question,
and the same answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: The same answer. In other words, you mean that you decline
to answer because of the reasons stated before?
MR. SEEGER: I gave my answer, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: You see, sir, I feel-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you what my answer is.
(Witness consulted with counsel [Paul L. Ross].)
I feel that in my whole life I have never done anything of any
conspiratorial nature and I resent very much and very deeply the
implication of being called before this Committee that in some way because
my opinions may be different from yours, or yours, Mr. Willis, or yours,
Mr. Scherer, that I am any less of an American than anybody else. I love my
country very deeply, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Why don't you make a little contribution toward preserving
its institutions?
MR. SEEGER: I feel that my whole life is a contribution. That is why I
would like to tell you about it.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I don't want to hear about it.
MR. SCHERER: I think that there must be a direction to answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer, sir.
MR. SCHERER: Let me understand. You are not relying on the Fifth Amendment,
are you?
MR. SEEGER: No, sir, although I do not want to in any way discredit or
depreciate or depredate the witnesses that have used the Fifth Amendment,
and I simply feel it is improper for this committee to ask such questions.
MR. SCHERER: And then in answering the rest of the questions, or in
refusing to answer the rest of the questions, I understand that you are not
relying on the Fifth Amendment as a basis for your refusal to answer?
MR. SEEGER: No, I am not, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I have before me a photostatic copy of May 4,1949, issue of
the Daily Worker, which has an article entitled, "May Day Smash Review Put
on by Communist Cultural Division, On Stage," and the article was written
by Bob Reed. This article emphasizes a production called Now Is the Time,
and it says this: Now Is the Time was a hard-hitting May Day show of songs
and knife-edged satire. New songs and film strips walloped the enemies of
the people in what the singers called "Aesopian language." And other
persons [participated], including Pete Seeger. Lee Hays is recited to be
the MC, or master of ceremonies. Did you take part in this May Day program
under the auspices of the Music Section of the Cultural Division of the
Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Chairman, the answer is the same as before.
MR. SCHERER: I think we have to have a direction.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question.
MR. SEEGER: I have given you my answer, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: The article contains another paragraph, as follows: This
performance of Now Is the Time was given in honor of the twelve indicted
Communist Party leaders. And then it continues with Bob Reed's account of
the show: This reviewer has never seen a show which stirred its audience
more. Add up new material, fine personal and group performances,
overwhelming audience response-the result was a significant advance in the
people's cultural movement. Now Is the Time is that rare phenomenon, a
political show in which performers and audience had a lot of fun. It should
be repeated for large audiences. Mr. Lee Hays was asked, while he was on
the witness stand, whether or not he wrote that play, and he refused to
answer. Do you know whether he was the originator of the script?
MR. SEEGER: Do I know whether he was the originator of the script? Again my
answer is the same. However, if you want to question me about any songs, I
would be glad to tell you, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: That is what you are being asked about now.
MR. TAVENNER: You said that you would tell us about the songs. Did you
participate in a program at Wingdale Lodge in the State of New York, which
is a summer camp for adults and children, on the weekend of July Fourth of
this year?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: Again, I say I will be glad to tell what songs I have ever
sung, because singing is my business.
MR. TAVENNER: I am going to ask you.
MR. SEEGER: But I decline to say who has ever listened to them, who has
written them, or other people who have sung them.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you sing this song, to which we have referred, "Now Is
the Time," at Wingdale Lodge on the weekend of July Fourth?
MR. SEEGER: I don't know any song by that name, and I know a song with a
similar name. It is called "Wasn't That a Time." Is that the song?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you sing that song?
MR. SEEGER: I can sing it. I don't know how well I can do it without my
banjo.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I said, Did you sing it on that occasion?
MR. SEEGER: I have sung that song. I am not going to go into where I have
sung it. I have sung it many places.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Did you sing it on this particular occasion? That is what
you are being asked.
MR. SEEGER: Again my answer is the same.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You said that you would tell us about it.
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you about the songs, but I am not going to tell you
or try to explain-
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question. Did you sing this
particular song on the Fourth of July at Wingdale Lodge in New York?
MR. SEEGER: I have already given you my answer to that question, and all
questions such as that. I feel that is improper: to ask about my
associations and opinions. I have said that I would be voluntarily glad to
tell you any song, or what I have done in my life.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I think it is my duty to inform you that we don't accept
this answer and the others, and I give you an opportunity now to answer
these questions, particularly the last one.
MR. SEEGER: Sir, my answer is always the same.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: All right, go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you chosen by Mr. Elliott Sullivan to take part in the
program on the weekend of July Fourth at Wingdale Lodge?
MR. SEEGER: The answer is the same, sir.
MR. WILLIS: Was that the occasion of the satire on the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights?
MR. TAVENNER: The same occasion, yes, sir. I have before me a photostatic
copy of a page from the June 1, 1949, issue of the Daily Worker, and in a
column entitled "Town Talk" there is found this statement: The first
performance of a new song, "If I Had a Hammer," on the theme of the Foley
Square trial of the Communist leaders, will he given at a testimonial
dinner for the 12 on Friday night at St. Nicholas Arena. . . .Among those
on hand for the singing will be . . . Pete Seeger, and Lee Hays-and others
whose names are mentioned. Did you take part in that performance?
MR. SEEGER: I shall he glad to answer about the song, sir, and I am not
interested in carrying on the line of questioning about where I have sung
any songs.
MR. TAVENNER: I ask a direction.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: You may not he interested, but we are, however. I direct
you to answer. You can answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I feel these questions are improper, sir, and I feel they are
immoral to ask any American this kind of question.
MR. TAVENNER: Have you finished your answer?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Seeger exhibit No.4," for identification only, and to be made a
part of the Committee files.
MR. SEEGER: I am sorry you are not interested in the song. It is a good
song.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you present in the hearing room while the former
witnesses testified?
MR. SEEGER: I have been here all morning, yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I assume then that you heard me read the testimony of Mr.
[Elia] Kazan about the purpose of the Communist Party in having its actors
entertain for the henefit of Communist fronts and the Communist Party. Did
you hear that testimony?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, I have heard all of the testimony today.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you hear Mr. George Hall's testimony yesterday in which
he stated that, as an actor, the special contribution that he was expected
to make to the Communist Party was to use his talents by entertaining at
Communist Party functions? Did you hear that testimony?
MR. SEEGER: I didn't hear it, no.
MR. TAVENNER: It is a fact that he so testified. I want to know whether or
not you were engaged in a similar type of service to the Communist Party in
entertaining at these features.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I have sung for Americans of every political persuasion, and I
am proud that I never refuse to sing to an audience, no matter what
religion or color of their skin, or situation in life. I have sung in hobo
jungles, and I have sung for the Rockefellers, and I am proud that I have
never refused to sing for anybody. That is the only answer I can give along
that line.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Mr. Tavenner, are you getting around to that letter? There
was a letter introduced yesterday that I think was of greater importance
than any bit of evidence adduced at these hearings, concerning the attempt
made to influence people in this professional performers' guild and union
to assist a purely Communist cause which had no relation whatsoever to the
arts and the theater. Is that what you are leading up to?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, it is. That was the letter of Peter Lawrence, which I
questioned him about yesterday. That related to the trial of the Smith Act
defendants here at Foley Square. I am trying to inquire now whether this
witness was party to the same type of propaganda effort by the Communist
Party.
MR. SCHERER: There has been no answer to your last question.
MR. TAVENNER: That is right; may I have a direction?
MR. SEEGER: Would you repeat the question? I don't even know what the last
question was, and I thought I have answered all of them up to now.
MR. TAVENNER: What you stated was not in response to the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Proceed with the questioning, Mr. Tavenner.
MR. TAVENNER: I believe, Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I will have
the question read to him. I think it should be put in exactly the same
form.
(Whereupon the reporter read the pending question as above recorded.)
MR. SEEGER: "These features": what do you mean? Except for the answer I
have already given you, I have no answer. The answer I gave you you have,
don't you? That is, that I am proud that I have sung for Americans of every
political persuasion, and I have never refused to sing for anybody because
I disagreed with their political opinion, and I am proud of the fact that
my songs seem to cut across and find perhaps a unifying thing, basic
humanity,and that is why I would love to be able to tell you about these
songs, because I feel that you would agree with me more, sir. I know many
beautiful songs from your home county, Carbon, and Monroe, and I hitchhiked
through there and stayed in the homes of miners.
MR. TAVENNER: My question was whether or not you sang at these functions of
the Communist Party. You have answered it inferentially, and if I
understand your answer, you are saying you did.
MR. SEEGER: Except for that answer, I decline to answer further.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you sing at functions of the Communist Party, at
Communist Party requests?
MR. SEEGER: I believe, sir, that a good twenty minutes ago, I gave my
answer to this whole line of questioning.
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, but you have now beclouded your answer by your
statement, and I want to make certain what you mean. Did you sing at the
Communist Party functions which I have asked you about, as a Communist
Party duty?
MR. SEEGER: I have already indicated that I am not interested, and I feel
it is improper to say who has sung my songs or who I have sung them to,
especially under such compulsion as this.
MR. TAVENNER: Have you been a member of the Communist Party since 1947?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: The same answer, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: I must give the same answer as before.
MR. TAVENNER: I have a throwaway sheet entitled "Culture Fights Back,
1953," showing entertainment at the Capitol Hotel, Carnival Room,
Fifty-first Street at Eighth Avenue, in 1953, sponsored by the Committee to
Defend V. J. Jerome. It indicates that Pete Seeger was one of those
furnishing the entertainment. Will you tell the Committee, please, whether
or not you were asked to perform on that occasion, and whether or not you
did, either as a Communist Party directive, or as what you considered to be
a duty to the Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: I believe I have answered this already.
MR. TAVENNER: Are you acquainted with V. J. Jerome?
MR. SEEGER: I have already told you, sir, that I believe my associations,
whatever they are, are my own private affairs.
MR. TAVENNER: You did know, at that time, in 1953, that V. J. Jerome was a
cultural head of the Communist Party and one of the Smith Act defendants in
New York City?
MR. SEEGER: Again the same answer, sir.
MR. SCHERER: You refuse to answer that question?
MR. SEEGER: Yes, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I hand you a photograph which was taken of the May Day parade
in New York City in 1952, which shows the front rank of a group of
individuals, and one is in a uniform with military cap and insignia, and
carrying a placard entitled CENSORED. Will you examine it please and state
whether or not that is a photograph of you?
(A document was handed to the witness.)
MR. SEEGER: It is like Jesus Christ when asked by Pontius Pilate, "Are you
king of the Jews?"
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Stop that.
MR. SEEGER: Let someone else identify that picture.
MR. SCHERER: I ask that he be directed to answer the question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer the question.
MR. SEEGER: Do I identify this photograph?
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Yes.
MR. SEEGER: I say let someone else identify it.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Seeger exhibit No.6."
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Make it a part of the record.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: It is noted that the individual mentioned is wearing a
military uniform. That was in May of 1952, and the statute of limitations
would have run by now as to any offense for the improper wearing of the
uniform, and will you tell the Committee whether or not you took part in
that May Day program wearing a uniform of an American soldier?
MR. SEEGER: The same answer as before, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer that question.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SCHERER: I think the record should show that the witness remains mute,
following the direction by the Chairman to answer that question.
MR. SEEGER: The same answer, sir, as before.
MR. SCHERER: Again, I understand that you are not invoking the Fifth
Amendment?
MR. SEEGER: That is correct.
MR. SCHERER: We are not accepting the answers or the reasons you gave.
MR. SEEGER: That is your prerogative, sir.
MR. SCHERER: Do you understand it is the feeling of the Committee that you
are in contempt as a result of the position you take?
MR. SEEGER: I can't say.
MR. SCHERER: I am telling you that that is the position of the Committee.
MR. TAVENNER: The Daily Worker of April 21, 1948, at page 7, contains a
notice that Pete Seeger was a participant in an affair for Ferdinand Smith.
Will you tell the Committee what the occasion was at which you took part?
MR. SEEGER: I hate to waste the Committee's time, but I think surely you
must realize by now that my answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Do you know whether Ferdinand Smith was under deportation
orders at that time?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: I think that he was not under deportation orders until a
little later than that.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is his name?
MR. TAVENNER: Ferdinand Smith, a Communist Party member and former
vice-president of the maritime union. My purpose in asking you these
questions, Mr. Seeger, is to determine whether or not, in accordance with
the plan of the Communist Party as outlined by Mr. Kazan and Mr. George
Hall, you were performing a valuable service to the Communist Party, and if
that was the way they attempted to use you.
MR. SEEGER: Is that a question, sir?
MR. TAVENNER: That is my explanation to you, with the hope that you will
give the Committee some light on that subject.
MR. SEEGER: No, my answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also perform and entertain at various functions held
by front organizations, such as the American Youth for Democracy? I have
here photostatic copies of the Daily Worker indicating such programs were
conducted in Detroit in 1952, at Greenwich Village on May 10, 1947, and
again at another place in March of 1948. Did you entertain at functions
under the auspices of the American Youth for Democracy?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: The answer is the same, and I take it that you are not
interested in all of the different places that I have sung. Why don't you
ask me about the churches and schools and other places?
MR. TAVENNER: That is very laudable, indeed, and I wish only that your
activities had been confined to those areas. If you were acting for the
Communist Party at these functions, we want to know it. We want to
determine just what the Communist Party plan was.
MR. SCHERER: Witness, you have indicated that you are perfectly willing to
tell us about all of these innumerable functions at which you entertained,
but why do you refuse to tell us about the functions that Mr. Tavenner
inquires about?
MR. SEEGER: No, sir, I said that I should be glad to tell you about all of
the songs that I have sung, because I feel that the songs are the clearest
explanation of what I do believe in, as a musician, and as an American.
MR. SCHERER: Didn't you just say that you sang before various religious
groups, school groups?
MR. SEEGER: I have said it and I will say it again, and I have sung for
perhaps-
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SCHERER: You are willing to tell us about those groups?
MR. SEEGER: I am saying voluntarily that I have sung for almost every
religious group in the country, from Jewish and Catholic, and Presbyterian
and Holy Rollers and Revival Churches, and I do this voluntarily. I have
sung for many, many different groups-and it is hard for perhaps one person
to believe, I was looking back over the twenty years or so that I have sung
around these forty-eight states, that I have sung in so many different
places.
MR. SCHERER: Did you sing before the groups that Mr. Tavenner asked you
about?
MR. SEEGER: I am saying that my answer is the same as before. I have told
you that I sang for everybody.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Wait a minute. You sang for everybody. Then are we to
believe, or to take it, that you sang at the places Mr. Tavenner mentioned?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is that?
MR. SEEGER: It seems to me like the third time I have said it, if not the
fourth.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Maybe it is the fifth, but say it again. I want to know
what your answer is.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I decline to discuss, under compulsion, where I have sung, and
who has sung my songs, and who else has sung with me, and the people I have
known. I love my country very dearly, and I greatly resent this implication
that some of the places that I have sung and some of the people that I have
known, and some of my opinions, whether they are religious or
philosophical, or I might be a vegetarian, make me any less of an American.
I will tell you about my songs, but I am not interested in telling you who
wrote them, and I will tell you about my songs, and I am not interested in
who listened to them.
MR. TAVENNER: According to the Daily Worker, there was a conference program
of the Civil Rights Congress on April 2, 1949, at which you were one of the
performers. On August 27, 1949, the People's Artists presented a summer
musicale at Lakeland Acres picnic grounds, Peekskill, New York, for the
benefit of the Harlem chapter of the Civil Rights Congress, at which you
were a participant. At another meeting of the Civil Rights Congress of New
York, around May 11, 1946, you were a participant. Will you tell the
Committee, please, under what circumstances you performed, because you have
said that you sang at all sorts of meetings. Under what circumstances were
your services acquired on those occasions?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir. I can only infer from
your lack of interest in my songs that you are actually scared to know what
these songs are like, because there is nothing wrong with my songs, sir. Do
you know-
MR. SCHERER: You said you want to talk about your songs, and I will give
you an opportunity. Tell us what songs you sang at Communist Party
meetings?
MR. SEEGER: I will tell you about the songs that I have sung any place.
MR. SCHERER: I want to know the ones that you sang at Communist Party
meetings, because those are the songs about which we can inquire. Just tell
us one song that you sang at a Communist Party meeting.
MR. SEEGER: Mr. Scherer, it seems to me that you heard my testimony, and
that is a ridiculous question, because you know what my answer is.
MR. TAVENNER: Mr. George Hall testified that the entertainment that he
engaged in, at the instance of the Communist Party, was not songs of a
political character. He did say, however, that he was expected by the
Communist Party to perform in order to raise money for the Communist Party.
Now, did you, as Mr. Hall did, perform in order to raise money for
Communist Party causes?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I don't care what Mr. Hall says, and my answer is the same as
before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: That you refuse to answer?
MR. SEEGER: I have given my answer.
MR. SCHERER: Was Mr. Hall telling the truth when he told the Committee
about the entertainment he engaged in at the instance of the Communist
Party?
MR. SEEGER: I don't feel like discussing what Mr. Hall said.
MR. TAVENNER: The American Committee for Yugoslav Relief has been
designated as a front organization. According to the October 22, 1947,
issue of the Daily People's World, in California, Pete Seeger headed the
list of entertainers to appear at a picnic given by the Southern California
chapter of that organization. Did you participate in that program?
MR. SEEGER: If you have a hundred more photostats there, it seems silly for
me to give you the same answer a hundred more times.
MR. TAVENNER: What is your answer?
MR. SEEGER: It is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: There are various peace groups in the country which have
utilized your services, are there not?
MR. SEEGER: I have sung for pacifists and I have sung for soldiers.
MR. TAVENNER: According to the Daily Worker of September 6, 1940, you were
scheduled as a singer at a mass meeting of the American Peace Mobilization
at Turner's Arena, in Washington, D.C. What were the circumstances under
which you were requested to take part in that performance?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: You were a member of the American Peace Mobilization, were
you not?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you not a delegate to the Chicago convention of the
American Peace Mobilization on September 5, 1940?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Is that organization subversive?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What is the name of it?
MR. TAVENNER: American Peace Mobilization, and it was the beginning of
these peace organizations, back in 1940. Did you take part in the American
Peace Crusade program in Chicago in April of 1954?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before. Of course, I would be curious
to know what you think of a song like this very great Negro spiritual, "I'm
Gonna Lay Down My Sword and Shield, Down by the Riverside."
MR. TAVENNER: That is not at all responsive to my question.
MR. SEEGER: I gave you my answer before I even said that.
MR. TAVENNER: If you refuse to answer, I think that you should not make a
speech.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also perform a service for the California Labor
School in Los Angeles by putting on musical programs there?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you teach in the California Labor School?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. SCHERER: I think for the record you should state whether the California
Labor School has been cited.
MR. TAVENNER: It has.
MR. SCHERER: As subversive and Communist dominated?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, it has been.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also teach at the Jefferson School of Social Science
here in the city of New York?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. SCHERER: I ask that you direct him to answer.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer. Did you teach at the Jefferson
School here at New York?
MR. SEEGER: I feel very silly having to repeat the same thing over and over
again, but my answer is exactly the same as before, sir.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: Has the Jefferson School of Social Science been cited?
MR. TAVENNER: Yes, and it has been required to register under the 1950
Internal Security Act.
MR. SCHERER: There are a number of people here who taught at that school,
Mr. Walter.
MR. TAVENNER: I desire to offer in evidence a photostatic copy of an
article from the September 21, 1946, issue of the Daily Worker which refers
to music courses at Jefferson School, and I call attention to the last
sentence in the article wherein Peter Seeger is mentioned as a leader in
one of the courses. * * * According to the March 18, 1948, issue of the
Daily Worker, it is indicated that you would entertain at a musical
presented by the Jefferson Workers' Bookshop. According to the November 25,
1948, issue of the same paper you would perform also under the auspices of
the Jefferson School of Social Science. Also you were a participant in a
program advertised in the Daily Worker of June 1, 1950, put on by the
Jefferson School of Social Science, and according to an issue of February
15, 1954, of the same paper, you were expected to play and lecture on songs
and ballads in the Jefferson School. Will you tell the Committee, please,
what were the circumstances under which you engaged in those programs, if
you did?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Did you also engage in performances for the Labor Youth
League in 1954?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before. Did you think that I sing
propaganda songs or something?
MR. TAVENNER: In 1947, what was your connection with an organization known
as People's Songs?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
MR. SEEGER: I take the same answer as before regarding any organization or
any association I have.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: What was People's Songs, Mr. Tavenner?
MR. TAVENNER: People's Songs was an organization which, according to its
issue of February and March 1947, was composed of a number of persons on
the board of directors who have been called before this Committee or
identified by this Committee as members of the Communist Party, and the
purpose of which, from information made available to the Committee, was to
extend services to the Communist Party in its entertainment projects. Mr.
Lee Hays was a member of the board of directors, was he not, along with
you, in this organization?
(Witness consulted with counsel)
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you not the editor of People's Songs, and a member of
the board of directors in 1947?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: You were actually the national director of this organization,
were you not?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Was the organization founded by Alan Lomax?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: Was the booking agent of People's Songs an organization known
as People's Artists?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Will you tell the Committee, please, whether or not during
the weekend of July 4, 1955, you were a member of the Communist Party?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before, sir.
MR. TAVENNER: Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during
the various entertainment features in which you were alleged to have
engaged?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. TAVENNER: Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same.
MR. SCHERER: I ask for a direction on that question.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: I direct you to answer.
MR. SEEGER: My answer is the same as before.
MR. TAVENNER: I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN WALTER: The witness is excused.
Pete Seeger was sentenced to a year in jail for contempt of Congress but
appealed his case successfully after a fight that lasted until 1962.
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